Before I get to the stretches (there are actually several but I'll give you two basic static ones) let me point out that I'm assuming you could use this but of course I don't know for sure it will help the bench press problem. Just going by what you have said and your vids, I can assume it won't hurt and should help in general.
Another important caveat is these first two stretches are just about passive flexibility. The test I gave you more or less is a crude test of passive flexibility. If the muscle is chronically shortened and tight this will help return it to a better length, etc. But once you have gotten ENOUGH flexibility in the muscles you will not necessarily have to be stretching them as much. However, the hip flexors (psoas) tend to be ones that get shortened and tight so they can need more maintenance than some others. But you do not need to turn into a contortionist.
Conversely, for instance, with hamstrings, you may find them to be really short and tight, do some static stretches after you workouts for a while (and maybe dynamic) exercises before and then find that they are pretty much fine because the will keep their ROM just doing the exercises and using that liberated ROM. Especially if you continue to hit some short dynamic stretches before you workout with some occasional passive stretching.
Now, passive stretching after your workouts can help with recovery. However, continually stretching certain muscles in this way when not needed can rob you of power that you would otherwise possess. A very light stretch can be done without this problem plus some cool down cardio, for a lot of people, helps with recovery just as much. I will say that while the passive stretching is great for when you have the imbalances and you need it but once you don’t need it anymore the help with recovery isn’t necessarily worth the tradeoff in power. This is only true for certain muscle such as the above mentioned hamstings, however. For those, stick with dynamics before the workout (or after is also fine of course) and you’ll be golden.
Passive Stretches (After only except in cases of extremely overactive hip flexors...probably not you in this case).
Here is the first hip flexor stretch. It is from the stretching article This one is more basic and you may be more comfortable starting with this one. The second is the main one that I use.
First basic hip flexor stretch
This stretch is sometimes called the “runner’s start” because the position you are in resembles that of a sprinter at the starting block. It mainly stretches the psoas muscle located just above the top of the thigh.
Crouch down on the floor with both hands and knees on the ground. Put one leg forward with your foot on the floor so that your front leg is bent at the knee at about a 90 degree angle. Now extend your rear leg in back of you so that it is almost completely straight (with just an ever so slight bend) and so that the weight of your rear leg is on the ball of your rear foot with the foot in a forced arch position. Now we are in the position to stretch (notice that your rear leg should be in pretty much the same position that it would assume if you were performing a front split).
Keeping your back straight and in line with your rear thigh, exhale and slowly try to bring your chest down to the floor (you shouldn’t need to bend much further than the line your front knee is on). You should feel the stretch primarily in the upper thigh of your rear leg but you should also feel some stretch in your front hamstring as well. Hold this position for at least 15 seconds. If you wish to also stretch your rear quadricep from this position, you can shift your weight back so that your rear leg makes a right angle with your knee pointing toward the floor (but don’t let it touch the floor). Now, without bending your rear leg any further, try to force your rear knee straight down to the floor.
Now repeat the same stretch(es) with your other leg in front.
For an isometric stretch, you can do this same stretch in front of a wall and instead of putting your hands on the floor, put them in front of you against the wall and then push against the wall with the ball of your foot (without decreasing the “stretch” in your psoas).
Second “advanced” hip flexor stretch
Here is a very good description with pictures. So I don’t have to write it all out. You’ll find that your forward leg will be able to move farther forward over time but you don’t need to be turning it into a front split. A lot of people will call this one “active” since it involves tightening the glutes but it’s not really since you are not solely relying on this contraction to stretch the opposite muscle, at least IMO:
http://muscleventures.com/video/2006/10/hip_flexor_stretch.html
Active Stretch
You can also use an active stretch. I like this very much as well. As for as liberating range of motion I think either one is just as good (passive or active). There is certainly no real evidence to say that active or passive is better. But active is generally safer. Also the idea is that it strengthens the antagonist while stretching the muscle, or at least activating the antagonist. Another good thing is that when the antagonist is contracted it relaxes the muscle you want to stretch (provided the right positioning) so that makes for a nice stretch. In the case of the hip flexors if you do the active it should work very well for activating the glutes. That’s a good thing since tight hip flexors tend to go along with weak or not so active glutes.
So for the active stretch you get down on your hands and knees. Pad under the down knee (don’t be a hero use the pad). Hold yourself up on one hand and reach back and grap the ankle for the side you want to stretch. Then you contract that glute muscle to bring the thigh up. This stretches the hip muscle….here is a good explanation and handy little diagrams:
http://www.cascadewellnessclinic.com...rt/art32.shtml
Dynamic Stretches (Before or after)
Some basic dynamic stretches that I have always used are simple leg swings. These are not “ballistic” these are dynamic. That means that you do it in a controlled systematic way. You start out swinging just enough to where it is comfy and your slowly find and add a little ROM each swing. Here is a good vid of them. That gets the hams and hip flexors but of course you can do either/or.
http://stronglifts.com/dynamic-stretch-exercise-for-your-hip-flexor-hamstring/
Also my favorites:
Walking Lunge
I warm up with this pretty much every time I do “lower body”. This gets the hamstings and hip flexors and general purpose lower body type thing. You basically do walking body weight lunges using a nice long stride and making sure to strike and thust off the heel. Go for the deepest range of motion you can. This means you do it gradually the way you always do dynamic stretches. A little bit lower each “rep”. Take care to keep your torso upright during the whole thing and I like to bring my hands behind my head and push my elbows up toward the ceiling. A good variation of this is “high knee” where you bring your leading knee up as high as possible before bringing it forward and down onto the heel. Everything else is identical.
And lastly:
Butt Kicks
The name should be self explanatory. You bring up one leg to the rear and kick yourself in the butt. It’s best to get a little running motion going. You’ll have to lean forward just a bit.
And yes, you will look silly doing these.
Wednesday, February 6, 2008
How to work on the butt wink of the squat...critique of Marv's squat 2nd attempt
Way to power through.
You definitely look as though you will benefit from the stretching. Especially the hipflexors.
Depthwise it looks as if you are a little bit higher than you were before but you're breaking parallel I think all of the time. You are not caving over at the bottom like you were in the first vid and it's like night and day between then and now. I think slowing down the descent a bit helped also.
I see you brought your hands in. But you still have your elbows pushed out way behind your body. Way farther back then most people do or CAN do. You obviously have a lot of range of motion there.
I didn't realize this before but now is see that you are gripping the bar with the meat of your palms. Basically pushing against it with the hard part of your hands with a hard wrist. You don't need to do that. Grip it higher in the hand so you can allow your wrists to relax more. Take some of the pressure off the post shoulder and allow you to relax the elbows forward more. Realize when I say things like forward or backwards I'm speaking in relative terms.
All of this will help your shoulder and neck to relax.
What is the problem you are having at the beginning of the descent? There is always this little hesitation or stutter. It almost looks like you begin to break at the knees, stop, then bring the hips back. Something you are thinking about or are uncomfortable about.
Right now it would be a good idea, on squats, to use you dynamic day, to focus on quality. I'm not saying go slow but have the priority focus more on form issues and smooth motion rather than solely on speed. It is always good to have some "quality" days. You even could up the weights more while keeping the reps low, as it would do you more good to work on these issues with a weight that requires more technique yet is not so heavy that your best form isn't easily achievable. "Heavy volume" day really isn't the best environment to fix things. That's heavy stuff you're pushing so we have to recognize that heavy and best form aren't synonomous.
Trust me, it is not going to hurt you at all to not go for a pr or for de or anything like that, and you can still work up to some fairly heavy weights. IMHO, one of the biggest drawbacks of 5x5's in general is the focus on volume to the detriment of other things like quality and balance. The reason I'm suggesting that day rather than recovery day is because you kinda need more that 8 reps
Work to achieve a smooth, all in one motion descent. Yes, descent matters as much as anything. Each time you move, stop, stutter, etc..your body has to sublety repositioning itself in space and that affects what happens subsequently.
I don't think there is too much that you can't easily work out that way. Basically the biggest thing is to get some of the stress of the shoulders which will basically allow you to get your whole body tighter and more controlled.
You definitely look as though you will benefit from the stretching. Especially the hipflexors.
Depthwise it looks as if you are a little bit higher than you were before but you're breaking parallel I think all of the time. You are not caving over at the bottom like you were in the first vid and it's like night and day between then and now. I think slowing down the descent a bit helped also.
I see you brought your hands in. But you still have your elbows pushed out way behind your body. Way farther back then most people do or CAN do. You obviously have a lot of range of motion there.
I didn't realize this before but now is see that you are gripping the bar with the meat of your palms. Basically pushing against it with the hard part of your hands with a hard wrist. You don't need to do that. Grip it higher in the hand so you can allow your wrists to relax more. Take some of the pressure off the post shoulder and allow you to relax the elbows forward more. Realize when I say things like forward or backwards I'm speaking in relative terms.
All of this will help your shoulder and neck to relax.
What is the problem you are having at the beginning of the descent? There is always this little hesitation or stutter. It almost looks like you begin to break at the knees, stop, then bring the hips back. Something you are thinking about or are uncomfortable about.
Right now it would be a good idea, on squats, to use you dynamic day, to focus on quality. I'm not saying go slow but have the priority focus more on form issues and smooth motion rather than solely on speed. It is always good to have some "quality" days. You even could up the weights more while keeping the reps low, as it would do you more good to work on these issues with a weight that requires more technique yet is not so heavy that your best form isn't easily achievable. "Heavy volume" day really isn't the best environment to fix things. That's heavy stuff you're pushing so we have to recognize that heavy and best form aren't synonomous.
Trust me, it is not going to hurt you at all to not go for a pr or for de or anything like that, and you can still work up to some fairly heavy weights. IMHO, one of the biggest drawbacks of 5x5's in general is the focus on volume to the detriment of other things like quality and balance. The reason I'm suggesting that day rather than recovery day is because you kinda need more that 8 reps
Work to achieve a smooth, all in one motion descent. Yes, descent matters as much as anything. Each time you move, stop, stutter, etc..your body has to sublety repositioning itself in space and that affects what happens subsequently.
I don't think there is too much that you can't easily work out that way. Basically the biggest thing is to get some of the stress of the shoulders which will basically allow you to get your whole body tighter and more controlled.
How to work on the butt wink of the squat...critique of Marv's squat
Ok. Well I watched it several times. As usual as I go back and watch it more I might notice other things.
Probably you will benefit just as much by doing certain things besides the actual squatting itself.
It seems like you defenitely need to work on mobility and ROM. Probably lower back, hip flexor, and ham stretching after your workout will help as far as lengthening the muslces and maybe some dynamic stretching before you workout. The good thing about dynamic stretching is it can get the muscle a little more pliable but also it is in the realm of mobility work so it can loosen up any tight joints like the ankles.
Also, I don't know if you are doing this or if it is just the way you are, but don't overexagerate the lower back arch. Go for a neutrual or "natural" back. In other words tighten up the arch you already have. Engage the glutes during this.
Are you using the valsalva technique?
Now for the actual squats you are breaking parallel consistently. But you tend to drop you shoulders down at the end. Some of the time you are practically folded in half! That must be tough to get out of. I can't tell for sure why you are doing this. My gut is that you are trying to compensate for the feeling of not going deep enough so you bring your shoulders down to get this illusion of depth. (I used to do that so I know what I'm talking about). What matters is where you butt is. You need to concentrate on keeping your upper back and shoulders back. I could be wrong about the reason you are doing that. It could be a correction for the bar being out of line. I can't tell. The bar should basically stay on a line with the midline (give or take) of your feet.
I think perhaps you may benefit from box squatting 3 or 4 inches below parallel so you can work on that while also keeping the lower back from rounding under. You can do speed work with that, btw, but I would recommend getting used to the box squatting before you try to do it fast.
Also some work with the load in the front may help you learn to stay a bit more upright. I like to do front loaded plate squats...you squat with a plate held out in front of you (high reps).
For the rest of it read this:
http://www.bodybuilding.net/44452-132-post.html
Besides flexibility, working at it, and general strenght and stabibility...the secret to your squat "problems" are all in the glutes. On your squat vid I noticed that your lower back rounded out at the bottom a bit and that you just said you are not going as deep. Also that you are working on keeping your knees out..which I take to mean keeping them from caving in rather than having them stick out
Try these two tests if you can. Get down into a squat position, bw only, and take care to really try to tighten up and engage the glutes. If you can really get them firing what you will notice, in the bottom position, is that as you tighthen them your knees pull outwards. All the bullshit little methods people prescribe, like putting a ball between your knees and all that, are just that...bullshit. It's all in the glutes, baby!
Same thing for the back rounding out. For that try this exercise/stretch for working on depth without the butt-wink (I really shouldn't be giving this secret away
).
Stand in front of your rack upright so you can hold on to it. Grab onto it at around waist height or so. Get yourself into a position for squatting. Now what you want to do, rather than just sitting back and dropping into a squat is to PULL yourself down into a squat using the hip flexors. I'll expand on that.
Just like that little relationship between the knees and the glutes there is a relationship between the hip flexors and glutes. What you shoud notice is that when you tighten and engage the hip flexors (and quads) the glutes should fire and tighten up also. If they don't, then you have discovered a fundamental problem...your glutes ain't cominng to work so you would have to address that.
So, after establishing a good tight, neutral spine, you pull youself down into a squat using your hip flexors. Like pretending they are rubber bands. As you do that your glutes will engage and feel very tight and active along with your hams to some extent. As you get into the bottom position you want to keep the glutes firing. Then you can try to establish more depth. Sort of push down and wiggle into it. All with the glutes working. Here is the other little magical relationship you should notice. When your glutes are really working in the bottom position like that, your lower back won't cave under. It can't. As soon as you relax that relationship while trying to get deeper, the back will begin rounding out more.
That is the secret to it. It doesn't mean that it won't take work to get this going while you are actually squatting. But it gives you something to go far that is a lot less nebulous than this whole working on it though will alone. If you do try box squats this is something you need to be aware of. Most people actually completely relax their lower spine when they sit down on the box.
Things to engage the glutes more wouldn't hurt. Glute bridges. I find pullthroughs to be fantastic for that also.
-------x--------
First off, on the plate squats the biggest place you will feel them is in the abs. You hold the plate straight out in front of you so you can see why that would be. It's a an intense isometric ab contraction...and that's a good thing. The best way in your circumstance to use them is as part of ab strength/stabibility training. So treat them like an ab thing. Do higher reps. That way you use them as a accessory and activation thing and not as something that will be of detriment to squatting. But yeah, they help you with "uprightness" and the only other thing I can say is to really pay attention to you glutes. Actually tighten them up a bit while descending. Forget the "quad dominant" and "ham dominant" stuff...think ass dominant. That will make all the difference when it comes to squatting.
Front squats and goblet squats are obviously a similar thing but this puts the weight much further out so you don't have the need of a heavy weight to get the effect you want plus at the same time there is no appreciable leg fatigue in it.
Unless you actually feel that your glutes are tight I doubt you will need to stretch them. Just the opposite, actually. Looking at you, although I can't tell for sure, it looks like you need the common combination of hams, lower back and hip flexor stretching. I would also highly recommend some hip adductor (inner thigh/groin) and some piriformis and ITB band stretching.
Yes I look at the floor six to ten feet ahead. Try not to lead with your head. Instead think in terms of the shoulders. I don't know who coined this, I'm pretty sure it was Rippetoe: Relate to the bar, not to the floor. You are not trying to push the floor down, after all, but the bar up. It's seems like a weird distinction because instinct makes you wants to just drive down with your legs. And of course there is going to be tons of leg drive involved.
But one of the biggest revelations you will make is that squats are about the hips not the quads or hams or any one leg muscle. Try to push the shoulders into the bar to initiate the lift. This is something that box squatting really allows good practice of.
If you begin box squatting you should definitely post a vid because there are some common errors that most people make on that.
I take breaths at the top when needed and I take may big breath at the top before descending, control the exhalation until past the 'sticking point' and then let the rest go quickly.
You can do lots of different things for dynamic stretching but I find the best thing is to do something that is actually hip dominant and multi-joint. If you are careful you can use that excercise I gave in the link to Hop's journal but you do it in a dynamic fashion where you drop down into a squat position in a controlled but dynamic way while increasing the depth each time you go down a little bit at a time.
Another good thing is to do bodyweight dynamic lunges (regular lunges) or reverse lunges where you concentrate on the stretch in the hams and the increasing range of motion. This gives more stretch than a squatting technigue would so in cases where you need to work on loosening up it's good. I wouldn't recommend any dynamic stretching of the lower back muscles.
Now you will probably get to a point where you don't need to do anything but drop into some dynamic squats to loosen up if anything. The dynamic stretching, however, helps as a warmup so it's not any skin off your nose to do a little here and there.
And yes goblet squats with the same type of deal.
-----------x-------------
I didn't notice your hips rising first in the vid, at least.
One thing I think I saw, but it's hard to tell, is the bar position changing. It looked like during the warm-up you had the bar about as low as it could possibly and then I noticed later it seemed to be set a little higher in more of a neutral position (not that high or low). I'm also going by the fact that you started out with more of a forward torso position in the beginning set and you were more upright in the later ones. I attribute that to changes in bar position. Subtle changes in bar position have a big effect so if you notice this to actually be true make sure you pick on position and stick with it. Lower bar will mean more forward torso.
For the caving over, it may also help to get your hands in as close to the bar as possible. I can see that you are not doing that extremely wide hand placement but at the same time the more you can get your hands in and the elbows more forward the easier it is to keep the chest up (also, of course, stick the chest up in the first place). Do what you can with that advice I don't expect you to do things with your hands that are just not possible for you.
Also, and I seem to mention this to everyone, try to control the descent just a bit more. When you get to the heavy stuff, if you drop to fast, you are expending more effort decelerating the bar which makes it extremely difficult to work on anything else.
Lastly, your set-up is a little bit akward. You're doing widestance but that doesn't mean you need to get up under the bar initially this way. Can be a bit iffy for the knees to actually walk the bar back in that position and I don't like the look of your feet not being underneat you more when you unrack the bar. Try to get the bar up with a more neutral stance and then step back into your working stance in as few movements as possible.
P.S. this was all meant for Marv. I somehow didn't realize it was Hit who made the comment.
Probably you will benefit just as much by doing certain things besides the actual squatting itself.
It seems like you defenitely need to work on mobility and ROM. Probably lower back, hip flexor, and ham stretching after your workout will help as far as lengthening the muslces and maybe some dynamic stretching before you workout. The good thing about dynamic stretching is it can get the muscle a little more pliable but also it is in the realm of mobility work so it can loosen up any tight joints like the ankles.
Also, I don't know if you are doing this or if it is just the way you are, but don't overexagerate the lower back arch. Go for a neutrual or "natural" back. In other words tighten up the arch you already have. Engage the glutes during this.
Are you using the valsalva technique?
Now for the actual squats you are breaking parallel consistently. But you tend to drop you shoulders down at the end. Some of the time you are practically folded in half! That must be tough to get out of. I can't tell for sure why you are doing this. My gut is that you are trying to compensate for the feeling of not going deep enough so you bring your shoulders down to get this illusion of depth. (I used to do that so I know what I'm talking about). What matters is where you butt is. You need to concentrate on keeping your upper back and shoulders back. I could be wrong about the reason you are doing that. It could be a correction for the bar being out of line. I can't tell. The bar should basically stay on a line with the midline (give or take) of your feet.
I think perhaps you may benefit from box squatting 3 or 4 inches below parallel so you can work on that while also keeping the lower back from rounding under. You can do speed work with that, btw, but I would recommend getting used to the box squatting before you try to do it fast.
Also some work with the load in the front may help you learn to stay a bit more upright. I like to do front loaded plate squats...you squat with a plate held out in front of you (high reps).
For the rest of it read this:
http://www.bodybuilding.net/44452-132-post.html
Besides flexibility, working at it, and general strenght and stabibility...the secret to your squat "problems" are all in the glutes. On your squat vid I noticed that your lower back rounded out at the bottom a bit and that you just said you are not going as deep. Also that you are working on keeping your knees out..which I take to mean keeping them from caving in rather than having them stick out
Try these two tests if you can. Get down into a squat position, bw only, and take care to really try to tighten up and engage the glutes. If you can really get them firing what you will notice, in the bottom position, is that as you tighthen them your knees pull outwards. All the bullshit little methods people prescribe, like putting a ball between your knees and all that, are just that...bullshit. It's all in the glutes, baby!
Same thing for the back rounding out. For that try this exercise/stretch for working on depth without the butt-wink (I really shouldn't be giving this secret away
).Stand in front of your rack upright so you can hold on to it. Grab onto it at around waist height or so. Get yourself into a position for squatting. Now what you want to do, rather than just sitting back and dropping into a squat is to PULL yourself down into a squat using the hip flexors. I'll expand on that.
Just like that little relationship between the knees and the glutes there is a relationship between the hip flexors and glutes. What you shoud notice is that when you tighten and engage the hip flexors (and quads) the glutes should fire and tighten up also. If they don't, then you have discovered a fundamental problem...your glutes ain't cominng to work so you would have to address that.
So, after establishing a good tight, neutral spine, you pull youself down into a squat using your hip flexors. Like pretending they are rubber bands. As you do that your glutes will engage and feel very tight and active along with your hams to some extent. As you get into the bottom position you want to keep the glutes firing. Then you can try to establish more depth. Sort of push down and wiggle into it. All with the glutes working. Here is the other little magical relationship you should notice. When your glutes are really working in the bottom position like that, your lower back won't cave under. It can't. As soon as you relax that relationship while trying to get deeper, the back will begin rounding out more.
That is the secret to it. It doesn't mean that it won't take work to get this going while you are actually squatting. But it gives you something to go far that is a lot less nebulous than this whole working on it though will alone. If you do try box squats this is something you need to be aware of. Most people actually completely relax their lower spine when they sit down on the box.
Things to engage the glutes more wouldn't hurt. Glute bridges. I find pullthroughs to be fantastic for that also.
-------x--------
First off, on the plate squats the biggest place you will feel them is in the abs. You hold the plate straight out in front of you so you can see why that would be. It's a an intense isometric ab contraction...and that's a good thing. The best way in your circumstance to use them is as part of ab strength/stabibility training. So treat them like an ab thing. Do higher reps. That way you use them as a accessory and activation thing and not as something that will be of detriment to squatting. But yeah, they help you with "uprightness" and the only other thing I can say is to really pay attention to you glutes. Actually tighten them up a bit while descending. Forget the "quad dominant" and "ham dominant" stuff...think ass dominant. That will make all the difference when it comes to squatting.
Front squats and goblet squats are obviously a similar thing but this puts the weight much further out so you don't have the need of a heavy weight to get the effect you want plus at the same time there is no appreciable leg fatigue in it.
Unless you actually feel that your glutes are tight I doubt you will need to stretch them. Just the opposite, actually. Looking at you, although I can't tell for sure, it looks like you need the common combination of hams, lower back and hip flexor stretching. I would also highly recommend some hip adductor (inner thigh/groin) and some piriformis and ITB band stretching.
Yes I look at the floor six to ten feet ahead. Try not to lead with your head. Instead think in terms of the shoulders. I don't know who coined this, I'm pretty sure it was Rippetoe: Relate to the bar, not to the floor. You are not trying to push the floor down, after all, but the bar up. It's seems like a weird distinction because instinct makes you wants to just drive down with your legs. And of course there is going to be tons of leg drive involved.
But one of the biggest revelations you will make is that squats are about the hips not the quads or hams or any one leg muscle. Try to push the shoulders into the bar to initiate the lift. This is something that box squatting really allows good practice of.
If you begin box squatting you should definitely post a vid because there are some common errors that most people make on that.
I take breaths at the top when needed and I take may big breath at the top before descending, control the exhalation until past the 'sticking point' and then let the rest go quickly.
You can do lots of different things for dynamic stretching but I find the best thing is to do something that is actually hip dominant and multi-joint. If you are careful you can use that excercise I gave in the link to Hop's journal but you do it in a dynamic fashion where you drop down into a squat position in a controlled but dynamic way while increasing the depth each time you go down a little bit at a time.
Another good thing is to do bodyweight dynamic lunges (regular lunges) or reverse lunges where you concentrate on the stretch in the hams and the increasing range of motion. This gives more stretch than a squatting technigue would so in cases where you need to work on loosening up it's good. I wouldn't recommend any dynamic stretching of the lower back muscles.
Now you will probably get to a point where you don't need to do anything but drop into some dynamic squats to loosen up if anything. The dynamic stretching, however, helps as a warmup so it's not any skin off your nose to do a little here and there.
And yes goblet squats with the same type of deal.
-----------x-------------
I didn't notice your hips rising first in the vid, at least.
One thing I think I saw, but it's hard to tell, is the bar position changing. It looked like during the warm-up you had the bar about as low as it could possibly and then I noticed later it seemed to be set a little higher in more of a neutral position (not that high or low). I'm also going by the fact that you started out with more of a forward torso position in the beginning set and you were more upright in the later ones. I attribute that to changes in bar position. Subtle changes in bar position have a big effect so if you notice this to actually be true make sure you pick on position and stick with it. Lower bar will mean more forward torso.
For the caving over, it may also help to get your hands in as close to the bar as possible. I can see that you are not doing that extremely wide hand placement but at the same time the more you can get your hands in and the elbows more forward the easier it is to keep the chest up (also, of course, stick the chest up in the first place). Do what you can with that advice I don't expect you to do things with your hands that are just not possible for you.
Also, and I seem to mention this to everyone, try to control the descent just a bit more. When you get to the heavy stuff, if you drop to fast, you are expending more effort decelerating the bar which makes it extremely difficult to work on anything else.
Lastly, your set-up is a little bit akward. You're doing widestance but that doesn't mean you need to get up under the bar initially this way. Can be a bit iffy for the knees to actually walk the bar back in that position and I don't like the look of your feet not being underneat you more when you unrack the bar. Try to get the bar up with a more neutral stance and then step back into your working stance in as few movements as possible.
P.S. this was all meant for Marv. I somehow didn't realize it was Hit who made the comment.
Squats and Breathing...
Relaxing the stomach is definitely a bad habit. It's funny that it would feel more natural to you. Tightening up the abs under heavy load is a sort of natural response.
In any case, in order to be the most stable and protect the spine you need to tighten up. The best approach, imo, is the valsalva maneuver. So you take in a good breath of air low down into the diaphragm, not the chest. And then you tighten the abs. With squats you should do that at the top. On deads some people do it at the bottom getting ready for the lift and others at the top if they have difficulty getting a breath of air in the bottom position.
On the breathing I think there are two different sides to it. On one hand I believe that no one should have to concentrate on artificial modes of breathing, that they naturally know what they need to do and shouldn't be preoccupied with anything but proper lifting. On the other hand it's pretty clear that what you've described increases IAP greatly and provides the most stable midsection. Unless you are a Chek disciple, and although, he provides a lot of good info on this, and has probably helped hundreds, I think he goes a little bit berserk in his enthusiasm for the wonders of the TVA.
It's good to start with a full breath in and tight as possible midsection. But holding the breath all the way can be a little problematic especially with more volume. As you go up it is probably fine to let some air escape, but without loosening up. But holding the breath is probably safer than having a belt tightly cinched since that holds the blood up high and restricts breathing, severely screwing with blood pressure. And with belts they have to be tightly cinched in order to actually do anything.
What I do with the really heavy stuff is grunt on the way up. I am mostly holding my breath but just letting a little go as I rise. Grunting or making a sound like that is the best way of controlling air flow.
In any case, in order to be the most stable and protect the spine you need to tighten up. The best approach, imo, is the valsalva maneuver. So you take in a good breath of air low down into the diaphragm, not the chest. And then you tighten the abs. With squats you should do that at the top. On deads some people do it at the bottom getting ready for the lift and others at the top if they have difficulty getting a breath of air in the bottom position.
On the breathing I think there are two different sides to it. On one hand I believe that no one should have to concentrate on artificial modes of breathing, that they naturally know what they need to do and shouldn't be preoccupied with anything but proper lifting. On the other hand it's pretty clear that what you've described increases IAP greatly and provides the most stable midsection. Unless you are a Chek disciple, and although, he provides a lot of good info on this, and has probably helped hundreds, I think he goes a little bit berserk in his enthusiasm for the wonders of the TVA.
It's good to start with a full breath in and tight as possible midsection. But holding the breath all the way can be a little problematic especially with more volume. As you go up it is probably fine to let some air escape, but without loosening up. But holding the breath is probably safer than having a belt tightly cinched since that holds the blood up high and restricts breathing, severely screwing with blood pressure. And with belts they have to be tightly cinched in order to actually do anything.
What I do with the really heavy stuff is grunt on the way up. I am mostly holding my breath but just letting a little go as I rise. Grunting or making a sound like that is the best way of controlling air flow.
Of Belts and Names...
Good man. You can drop a lot of names that recommend belts and you can also drop a lot of names who don't. Siff was an engineer btw, not a kinesology or biomecanics professer. If you get injured because you didn't wear a belt it is not necessarily because you didn't wear a belt. It could just be because you fucked up. There is a time for belts...but for EVERYONE whenever they do triples or 5's? I don't believe that. I only wear belts sometimes doing rack pulls or anything of that nature where the weight is way above my normal ability on squats or deads. Otherwise I don't feel I need it.
I'm honestly not bothering to talk about belts anymore. People just need to know that they better spend plenty of time not wearing it too and not all of that work without the belt should be shit light. And as for as CORE work....situps and all the other shit people call core work is really just ab strenghtheing work. It does not necessarily train stabilbility. You WILL become dependent on a belt if you wear it too much. Then if you overestimate yourself one day on something without the belt you will be MORE prone to injury.
One practice I HATE is the practice of recommending belts out of pure paranoia over getting sued if someone gets and injury. Ok, so this is provided for entertainment purposes only and I assume NO responsibility for any screwed up thing whoever may be reading this does in the gym. Train at your own risk.
OK, so I'm covered. But seriously, could a personal trainer also get sued if they failed to tell someone to take in a good breath into the belly, tighten there abs and hold their breath? This has been shown to increase IAP better than a belt in routine lifting tasks and indeed the most benefit with belts has been shown with intensitiels over 90%. Course then you could injure your back due to your detrained extensors when you move that heavy ass This End Up solid wood sofa in your living room. Then you could sue the guy for TELLING you to use a belt. It's just silly.
If you feel vulnerable and that you need a belt you probably do. But if you need a belt to do PR days on an intemediate program then you probably haven't been training well in the first place or you have a really bad back or something.
I will tell all you guys this who like to wear belts on every thing they do. When you end up injuring your back or something the one time you lift heavy without the belt, don't come asking me to help rehabilitate it
I'm honestly not bothering to talk about belts anymore
. People just need to know that they better spend plenty of time not wearing it too and not all of that work without the belt should be shit light. And as for as CORE work....situps and all the other shit people call core work is really just ab strenghtheing work. It does not necessarily train stabilbility. You WILL become dependent on a belt if you wear it too much. Then if you overestimate yourself one day on something without the belt you will be MORE prone to injury.One practice I HATE is the practice of recommending belts out of pure paranoia over getting sued if someone gets and injury. Ok, so this is provided for entertainment purposes only and I assume NO responsibility for any screwed up thing whoever may be reading this does in the gym. Train at your own risk.
OK, so I'm covered
. But seriously, could a personal trainer also get sued if they failed to tell someone to take in a good breath into the belly, tighten there abs and hold their breath? This has been shown to increase IAP better than a belt in routine lifting tasks and indeed the most benefit with belts has been shown with intensitiels over 90%. Course then you could injure your back due to your detrained extensors when you move that heavy ass This End Up solid wood sofa in your living room. Then you could sue the guy for TELLING you to use a belt. It's just silly.If you feel vulnerable and that you need a belt you probably do. But if you need a belt to do PR days on an intemediate program then you probably haven't been training well in the first place or you have a really bad back or something.
I will tell all you guys this who like to wear belts on every thing they do. When you end up injuring your back or something the one time you lift heavy without the belt, don't come asking me to help rehabilitate it
Monday, February 4, 2008
DL 250 lbs x 5 reps x 2 sets back-off session critique
Snatch grip? You stealing my secrets?
Yeah but no....don't do that right now. Your still having problems with your reg dead setup.
It seems we have to go over the same problems again. Your butt is too low at the beginning of your setup. You shoulders aren't far enough forward. Watch the vids closely. You will see how your butt is lower then your shoulders drift forward while you butt rises a bit. This is you automatically getting the bar into the correct line of gravity. But it should already be there. Look at the position you are in the instant befoe the bar starts to move. This is more or less where you should be at the get-go.
Now, snatch grip can be very demanding even at light weights. That could have been a big mistake. The 250 looked pretty heavy anyway. I know it's hard but you need to resist the temptation to do more than is needed.
Trust me, plenty of time for snatch grip in a little bit.
I don't like the way you are lowering the bar. Make sure the butt goes back first. Make sure that the knees don't bend until the bar gets to around just below the knees.
The reps themselves looked good once you corrected each time into the more favorable position.
E
here are my deadlift videos
Set 1 @ 250 x 5: http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...t=DL1275x5.flv
Set 2 @ 250 x 5: http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...t=DL2275x5.flv
Set 3 @ 135 x 6 w/ Snatch Grip: http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...natch135x6.flv
Thanks, sir!
Posted by E:
I think somewhere along the line you got the idea that your butt should be much lower than it needs to be and you've had a hard time shaking that notion. I hope all the stuff I said didn't create that confusion but it probably did!
I don't know smolov from shmalov
NO. To me, good training is like 70% planning and 30% thinking on your feet. You have guidelines not rules.
E
ok, so next time i should be aware of my set-up more because my ass is too low and my shoulders arent far enough ahead of the bar. cool cool.
so, what would you like me to do next time for deadlifts??
ps: off topic, but about military presses, am i going to use percentages now like smolov??? i dunno...percentages sounds interesting (and i probably sound like an idiot now).
Thanks, E.
Yeah but no....don't do that right now. Your still having problems with your reg dead setup.
It seems we have to go over the same problems again. Your butt is too low at the beginning of your setup. You shoulders aren't far enough forward. Watch the vids closely. You will see how your butt is lower then your shoulders drift forward while you butt rises a bit. This is you automatically getting the bar into the correct line of gravity. But it should already be there
. Look at the position you are in the instant befoe the bar starts to move. This is more or less where you should be at the get-go.Now, snatch grip can be very demanding even at light weights. That could have been a big mistake. The 250 looked pretty heavy anyway. I know it's hard but you need to resist the temptation to do more than is needed.
Trust me, plenty of time for snatch grip in a little bit.
I don't like the way you are lowering the bar. Make sure the butt goes back first. Make sure that the knees don't bend until the bar gets to around just below the knees.
The reps themselves looked good once you corrected each time into the more favorable position.
E
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
tried sending you these vids yesterday but your inbox is full here are my deadlift videos
Set 1 @ 250 x 5: http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...t=DL1275x5.flv
Set 2 @ 250 x 5: http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...t=DL2275x5.flv
Set 3 @ 135 x 6 w/ Snatch Grip: http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...natch135x6.flv
Thanks, sir!
Posted by E:
I think somewhere along the line you got the idea that your butt should be much lower than it needs to be and you've had a hard time shaking that notion. I hope all the stuff I said didn't create that confusion but it probably did!
I don't know smolov from shmalov
NO. To me, good training is like 70% planning and 30% thinking on your feet. You have guidelines not rules.
E
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
i am surprised you are saying my ass is too low....i was worried you would say my ass is too high..shit!ok, so next time i should be aware of my set-up more because my ass is too low and my shoulders arent far enough ahead of the bar. cool cool.
so, what would you like me to do next time for deadlifts??
ps: off topic, but about military presses, am i going to use percentages now like smolov??? i dunno...percentages sounds interesting (and i probably sound like an idiot now).
Thanks, E.
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