Quality Volume Work on High Incline Presses

Not exactly. There is no rule in terms of reps. It is much more a "reactive" based thing than a prescription of sets and reps.

It's much like doing staged sets or something but taking the prearranged number of reps out of it. It may end up looking like that above but it doesn't have to.

Essentially it is a way of getting a whole lot of volume at a high percentage of max without sacrificing quality. So you wanna stick to trying 3 reps if you feel good about it but 2 reps or 1 reps are fair game. On paper it will end up "looking" like a great many things that it is not. Like clusters, or staged sets, or density training, etc..

Rest periods would be a short as possible while maintaining quality and as long as needed. So like you start with a goal of 3 reps and down to 1 as a possibility, you'd start with a shortish rest period of 2.5 to 3 minutes and up to 5 or more..

You are not watching the clock so much as being somewhat aware of it, lol.

This is not something that has been written out and analysed in great detail and that is the point. You wouldn't write anything down until you've done it.

I think if you look through the "records" Anuj, you may find my original descriptions? They go into a bunch of detail. It's very effective for sure.

Rather than something like that above you could very likely end up with something like:

155x3
155x1
165x3
175x2
177.5x3
185x3
185x1
190x3

etc..Microloading is encouraged. The reason you would choose to do 1 rep would be based on the quality and speed of that rep. Say you started with the 155 and it was a bit harder than you thought. Quality was good but questionable for that weight. So you have a long rest and try 155 again finding it a breeze. No use in wasting yourself for more reps.

So you put it down and take a good rest and load up again. You continue reacting in this basic way throught. So you find yourself acclimating or what have you..

Kane, I know you're familiar with the basic idea here. But in this case you are not looking at any sort of max or any sort of round about percentage. You take your sweet time and go as far as you can in whatever step-wise manner necessary as far as you can go.

So "quality" means here quality of movement and HEAVY. We're not looking for crowded sets. Just sheer numbers at as high an intensity as possible. The nature of it is going to keep the intensity maneagle of course..i.e. go for 3 reps and the open-ended nature of it is going to allow you to get as heavy ass possible instead of just counting reps and sets. What you get is a way to build up a surprisingly large amount of volume at a high percentage. Don't expect to set new pr's based on this. This is practice time. Being that I usually reserve this for something I haven't done in a while a lot of apparent strength will tend to be garnered.

In other words if I haven't done overhead press in a minute then I might feel I need some "quality time under the bar". So I'd use this "quality volume" method a couple times and when I went heavy after that I'll do much better from having that honeymoon period.

Doing Band Work

Advice regarding the following video:

Well, you hit 425 so I wouldn't complain too much.

First the vid.

Banded deads should be like speed work. I don't see you really trying to explode them off the floor. It almost looks as if you are easing them to your knees and then straining against them. RIP THE BAR OFF THE FLOOR as if the plates are glued down with superglue and then continue accelerating against the bands.

The weight was too heavy in general.

However, the purpose of doing the banded first was to take advantage of the short term gain in RFD, etc..if it's making it HARDER then re-examine doing the bandeds first. However you are making the banded a goal in itself. It sounds like you had trouble not only with the 225 but struggled with the 135 (to lock out) the whole time. Now you say you are going to shit bricks trying to perfect the 135 while complaining that it makes it hard to get the heavy deads going off the floor…which is certainly not a normal sticking point for you in any case.

You should be exploding off the floor and accelerating throught the sticking point as if the weight is floating. The fact that your back is like a spring rather than the bar being torn off the floor with the initial pull shows to me that you are struggling against the bands too much the whole time. Take it back a lot of notches to a weight you are good with. The build up and then stop while you are ahead.

Otherwise, don't do the bands before heavy deads.

You're right on the warmup. Going to 335 and then hitting bands is not necessary. And it's a mistake in general to have the majority of you "warm-up" for bands being without bands.

First a little on banded deads:

The banded deads underscore the importance of RFD and acceleration. It is not just a matter of how much weight the bands add at lockout. In general you will not be able to lockout any where near what you would normally do, i.e. if the weight at top "equals" your normal lifting weight. All these formulas concerning weight at top and and what percentage and all that suck compared to simple experimentation.

There is actually nothing wrong with starting out with a weight on bandeds you can't lockout in theory. I do it all the time ON PURPOSE. I will start with a weight that either I can't lockout or I can't even get past my knees. But I will try like a mother as if I'm going to actually lock it out.

Then I'll drop down a bunch to a weigth that is easier but I still can't quite lock.

I'll quickly drop down to a weight that is MUCH lower that I can handle with ease. That is not easy but a weight that I can lift quick and handle with good form. Then I'll slowy build up.

When done right I will end up locking out a weight that I could not lock out at the beginning and with explosiveness. But once I get up to the lowest weight that I could not lock out at the beginning I am on to heavy deads and at this point the heavies should be flying off the floor.

I don't always use this method but it is viable for me.

But regardless of how all that sounds my goal is NOT to lift the heaviest banded dead with the thickest band possible. My goal is to increase my conventional deads.

With this workout, instead of using the banded deads for a purpose you let them own you. Everything is still ok but I don't really want to hear it sucked off the floor.

All that being said…it's still a good workout

---x---

My response:

I understand what you're saying. I will do that next time then. I like the idea of doing the heavy weight that I can't get past my knees, trying like hard, then working down and then working back up. I really like the idea and I was going to do that yesterday but I was too busy trying to stick to "the plan" or 5 doubles. I should've adapted but I was not confident in that since I hadn't spoken to you about it.

Now that I know, I'll use this method of yours. Just so I know I have this down right, is this what I do (sort of step by step):

1.) Don't warm-up all the way to 335. It is pointless. I should warm-up using the bands at a lighter weight (I can use 10 lbs and 25 lbs bumper plates).

2.) Then, I take a weight I KNOW is too heavy to clear but I do it anyways and I struggle like hell at the knees (or wherever) to lock it out. I fail but I do this nonetheless.

3.) After that, I should reduce the weight and try again. Of course with this the sticking point will be a hit higher up.

4.) Then, I hit some doubles with an easy weight (lighter).

5.) Then I move up a bit in the weight.

6.) Bands come off, time to do Deadlifts.

Am I correct, sir?

---x----

Mr. Troy:

Yep that's pretty much the idea.

Even so, if you wanted to stick to the plan the plan would have been to do the doubles. Not to do the doubles at such and such a weigth, right?

I do want to be clear that the banded session itself is not the problem, at least in isolation. It's what happens afterwards that is.

But the first time I watched the vid I didn't have time to watch the regular heavy deads and I just realized that your setup was quite a bit off from normal. Looking at it I am fairly certain that is why it felt so heavy off the floor. You shoulders were way behind the bar at the start.

Singles

OK, one problem with your singles is your build up. You are doing between 30 to 50 "reps" if not more before you get to your max for that day. It's a bit much. Also, are you rushing throught this? You have to rest and then rest more than you think you need between attempts. There is no medal for speedy.

You start out with 30 reps on the empty bar as opposed to the one set of 10 from last time. No surprize if things didn't go as planned. You want to avoid a big buildup of waste products. Lactic acid, blood pump all that. A little can help you lift more efficiently. A lot will shut you down.

One set of 8 to 10 with the empty bar should be sufficient. All you need to do is grease up the joints a bit.

After that, with the 95 I would avoid going over 5 reps. It would be better, imo, to do a couple of sets of lower reps if you really think you need so many…which you probably don't.

But here you do a set of 10 with 95 and then a set of 8 with around 50 percent of your projected max. Again….much more repping than needed. One set of 3 should do it. (Remember your body should be WARM already before you even start lifting)

Then after that you can start adding about 10 pounds at a time for SINGLES until you get to your max for that day. If you are feeling really good and you know that you can hit your max you can skip ahead as long as things feel nice and tight.

So for this last workout say something like this:

You guestimate that your max is somewhere between 260 and 270 (not really necessary to guess at all though)…

BarX8-10
95 5
155 X3
185X1
195X1
205X1

Then you could keep building up 10 pounds at a time or move up a bit. Either way it's a LOT less than what your were doing. But say…

220x1
245X1
255X1
270X1

You want to rest at least a minute between the earlier sets and then as you move into the heavier sets and once you get past the 220 range you need to recognize that you are already probably upwards of 85% of your max so you don't want to be rushing through that. Good rest periods as long as needed. Anything above 90% will COUNT afterall.

So in this example, once you hit 270 you already have 3 singles. Then all you have to do is accumulate however many more is in the plan. For me that would usually be something like a three week period with 7 to 8, then, 5, then 9 to 10 then backoff with some easy triples or something (so 4 week cycle). No, that is not a lot. But I'm good at high intensity work.

If you think that you cannot do more than, say 5 singles (that is the max PLUS whatever singles you do above 90% before or after the max) then do less. Say 3 or 4. Then next time do 2. Then next time after that try for 6 or so. But I bet you can do more than that you just need to take your time and net fatigue yourself with the warmup sets at the beginning.

You will probably be find it goes a lot better if you use a better buildup but the one I gave is just an example for reference…you got to figure you what works for you but definitely what you were doing is TOO much. You should use as many singles in the buildup as YOU need. But don't put so many triples or doubles in. I think 0311 mentioned that before. Volume doesn't count for anything here.

Remember that your relative max for the day and all your single attempts should be good form. You are not going for an all out PR like you are in a powerlifting comp.

My suggestion would be that you backoff with something easier for a week or two and then go at the singles again with a more moderate approach. And you can't do singles all the time. You gotta mix it up. You may be a person who needs to build up so that the singles cycle is more of a "peak" or you may be able to do it more by feel just making sure that the intensity cycles down and up so you don't end up losing ability through too much CNS intensive stuff.

---------x----------

Right, so for me to look at your workout and tell your what you shoulda, coulda, woulda is pointless. So as usual, keep in mind that this is just me "imagining" an example of what could have happened. So the individual numbers are just there to fill in the blanks..not as a reference.

@ 92% = 115 kgs (253 lbs) x 1 rep x 6 sets
@ 100% = 125 kgs (275 lbs) x failure x 2 attempts
I failed at hitting 275 lbs. I failed while coming up. The bar slid down my body both times.

Right off the bat..I see you calling the first 6 singles a certain percentage and i'm going to react like wtf, regardless of what the numbers are. Because to me working off numbers from weeks ago just makes no sense. The first order of business is to work up methodically to your best max of the day.

You're expectations of what you wanted to lift beforehand were to concrete. I say that all the time right? It doesn't matter what you expect to happen. And the problem is expectations lead you down certain paths and make you ignore all the forks in the road that may be worth exploring.

So imagine..

You're plan was to hit around 7 or 8 singles.

You know you did 275 a while back (or whatever) so you're going to work up toward that range (meaning within 20 pounds or so..depending on the person) and based on how thing feel at that time you try for a best max for that day, good quality, etc..so say that ends up being 260. You can't do any more AT THAT TIME.

That's one single.

So you drop it down to about 235.

That's two. That felt pretty good, especially since your potentiated by the one heavier single.

So your bring it up to 240.

That's 3.

You take a good rest but your not so sure you want to try for any more so you hit 240 again.

That's 4.

It kinda felt sluggish so you drop it back down after a really good rest to 235. You have your groove back and 235 is actually a bit easier than it was before. Maybe a good bit easier.

So that's 5.

Now you're feeling froggy. So you break out your fractional plates and put on 238 or so and knock that out nicely.

So that's 6.

So you hit 240 again.

That's 7

You take one more real good rest and decide you are the man and put on 255. It is very difficult and just on the verge of being bad..but definetly acceptable.

That's 8 MUCH heavier singles than what you did.

Depending on the person, that scenario may be way to heavy or it may be conservative. But what matters is working within your ablilty at the time.

For me that is actually conservative because I respond very well to cns intensive stuff. I get stronger as I go along for the most part. There have been plenty of times where my first "best" ended up NOT being my best for that day because lifting heavy makes me stronger very quickly thought potentiation. Some people do not respond exactly that way, so I can't tell everyone to do what I do, only say say "this is the method" I use.

BTW, I would never say a workout was pointless.

Relative Max

What you experienced with hitting your "max" again is exactly what I am talking about. That is why I harp on the term "relative max". It is so important when you see this stuff in action and I didn't just pull that term out of my ass, lol. When I say relative I mean relative to your preparedness or ability at the time. When you realize that that "preparedness" can change between the beginning of a workout to the middle or end..you realize just how powerful this is.

So think about the difference between basing everything off a 1RM or PR you got two weeks ago, or a month ago but having no idea what your ability really is and therefore just how heavy you are working at any one time. Not only have I repeated my "max" but I've many times exceeded that..now that is an empowering workout.

You just have to adjust things based on what you accomplish. Yes, it is reactive but not purely reactive. Purely reactive would have you reacting to what happens without any thought process as to how primed you are to lift, how warmed up you are, etc.

Anyone who has really experimented with this stuff knows that with these very low reps and high intensities what it feels like at any one time does not necessarily mean anything. You can start out slow as shit and end up throwing the weight around like a feather. You can feel like everything starts out good but then you get a bit sluggish and then you have certain things in place that can get you moving again. You just have to be willing to slow down and think for a second.

This is one reason I hate volume protocols for strength and I hate percentage based protocols for strength. Yes, I know we are talking about percentages in these posts but they are guidelines to get us in a desirable ballpark. That is not what I mean by percentage based which is when you base a progression on something you did once upon a time which means at any time you can be lifting really light in terms of your true ability because you don't test enough.

I remember one of the sections of that "starting strength faq" giving all these complicated guidelines as to bar speed and how that would tell you how to progress. All the while counting the damn reps and sets. And I reacted to that like I thought it was the stupidest thing I've ever read. And I still think so. I'm going to base everything off of one damn moment in the middle of 3 sets of 5? When everything becomes about "getting the reps" instead of lifting heavy weights I start falling asleep. I'm supposed to be working on an article right now and it is about "meaning what we say". I am saying intensity is job one and I MEAN it. There are no buts like "intensity is the most important BUT you must get a certain amount of volume to properly stimulate the muscles" or some such shit. It's easy to accumulate volume. Any dumbass can accumulate volume.

You know the thing I'd like to get across about acclimation is that you don't ever have to stop acclimating. Acclimation has nothing to do with warmups or just some sets you do right before you do the main sets. The whole time..if you play your cards right you are continuing to acclimate. I.E. hopefully you are acclimating and not going the other way. The trick is of course learning how to play your particular hand as opposed to any other person's hand.

And that is why I said "I'd like to get it across". It's can and will be quite different for each person. So all I can say is to keep in mind that it aint over just cuz you miss a lift. OR just because it feels slow.

You may have a workout where you work up your singles very well and have some good lifts..then his a max that your are a tad bit dissapointed with. And many times you are standing there thinking, wait a minute, I feel great, wtf? That is the time to think of your feet, to experiment and begin to learn more about how you acclimate to heavy loads.

I related this thing I do where I'll drop back down and do a cluster. Then a really long rest. Then hit a max I missed and continue with my singles based on that. The question is, of course, whether something that is reasonable for me, isn't downright crazy for you.

BUT if you play with it you probably will find things that work. Maybe there are some days where you need a slow acclimation and others where jumping right in will serve best. There are staged sets and all sorts of tricks.

Advice for Banded Deadlifts

Now that you've double looped the band you might want to not just automatically start out with 50% on the bar.

When I first did them I ended up starting with more like 40 or a little less.

What you did is fine and that is ok to do as well. But you might want to experiment with different things.

For intance, one thing I love to do is start out with a load I know I won't make at first so that the bands shut me down at about mid shin or a bit higher. Then I pull like hell like i'm going to get it up anway. Take a good rest and do it again.

You make sure you are properly warmed up and somewhat acclimated and you pick a weight that is not impossible for you to do again't the bands but simply that you are not ready to do..i.e. it's a very difficult weight your would need to work up to...perhaps as high as 60 percent load but you be the judge. But you intentionally try this weight anyway.

I like to do some static core stuff, btw, before this since when you pull at like that at mid shin (or a bit higher) it feels like almost all lower back. The thoracic may round over some during this and that is ok.

THEN drop down to 40 percent of so and really concentrate on ripping the bar off the floor and then excellerating againsn't the bands.

That was one thing that was missing, btw, from those lifts. It looks like you were just "lifting" the bar. I want to see you TEARING it off the floor like it's glued down.

So, back to the plan. You start with 40 and you slowly work upwards until you get to the weight you started with. All the time you want to concentrate on explosion. Take long rests and it's best to stick with singles.

Then, you may be surprised, that you can lock out the weight you started with. fairly easily, two or three times.

Or course other times you may want to stick with light loads where you can generate lots of speed.

Start out with some bandeds and then go to reg deads sometimes if you want to see some magic. You should pretty much immediately see the gains form the banded deads when you take the bands away. Basically, 65 or 70 percnet load may go up like 50 percent and the bar should really have that floating effect because of the rtd you've developed.

This is a way of seeing just how quickly you can get stronger through nervous system effects. But the trick is to "set" the effects. Becasue with neural gains it is easy come easy go.

The andersons look ok..heavy looking. I'd like to see you take a bit more time at the bottom and set the back. You may be a bit low. Try to initiate the lift by driving up agains't the bar instead of just "pushing" with your feet. A good way of looking at it is you are "extending" your body against the load rather than just pushing against the ground.

---

Psychology and Anxiety, etc etc...

So I want to expand on the whole psychology thing. Anxiety and all that. There were numerous statements by DH that got me motivated to go into this. I'll just quote a few here: Quote: Originally Posted by Darkhorse I know the times I've tried to go back to back days in the gym, all I could think about was if it was worth my getting up so early before work. No matter how subtle, it'll affect performance, and no amount of preworkout magic shakes is going to change that. Quote: Originally Posted by Darkhorse It's a race, but for what? No idea..... I can see having a comp or a meet in a time frame, but for the rest of you, it's hurting, not helping. This stuff is NOT obvious to the majority of people out there. Even most of the more advanced ones. Whatcha want to bet that many people will read those statements and not get that DH is talking about phsycological aspects as WELL as preparation, recovery, and all that. No, he's not talking about pre-workout nutrition, lol. We have had SO many threads about motivation and anxiety and concentration and those types of things they are uncoutable. I've only just begun to really appreciate the phsychological aspect of training and how it all ties together. Yeah, some of you have heard me talk about it before and I've probably pointed out many times to certain people when they PM about all their workout related stress that it's probably more than just training related, but I've had my own hangups that caused me not to truly appreciate this stuff. I guess I'll sort of do my own 'phsychological history' briefly to illustrate. I mean mostly training related, lol, there ain't enough years to relate it all  You see my thing is a bit of the opposite of what some people get. I tend to be 'hyperfocused'. I have an almost unhealth ability to tune out everything but the task at hand. That can help me get a lot of work done but in training it can be both a blessing and a curse. You can see why it would be a blessing. The reason it could be a curse is not as obvious and it took me a long time to get it. Problem is that "focus" alone isn't everything. You have to focus on the right things! I've had to be able to step outside myself also and realize that just as I can focus on good ways of doing things, I can also use that focus and motivation to ignore my own stress, feelings of boredom, etc.. I'll use Anuj as an example because I know he won't mind. I'll bet you he can remember me basically telling him to "get over it" when he was bored or disatisfied with his training. My feeling was that it was a problem in attitude. I said in another thread recently that many of the things people tell you have more to do with themselves than you. Well, THAT had as much to do with me, if not more, than it did Anuj. I'm not the only one here like that, I know. Obviously I would never want to lose my focus. I’m not complaining. Concentration in the gym is not a problem for me. But I also have the unhealthy ability to continue, in a completely dedicated mindset, down completely blind alleys while bricks are raining down and burying me. I don’t think I would have been able to continue being successful if I hadn’t started changing the way I look at certain things. I like to be self-sufficient, that’s for sure, but you can only go so far with that stuff. I don’t know everything, including what goes on in my own psyche. DH, mentioned the 2 on one off schedule with 4 day routines. Well I did that once to tell you the truth and it sucked so I hung it up. Luckily that was at a time when I had gotten over, a bit, my tendency to stick to unproductive protocols. But that brings me back to this idea of someone's training being "optimal".  Optimal doesn't exist in training. Because if you make one aspect of training optimal, another one suffers and becomes suboptimal. To answer that, many simply rate variables in terms of importance. This leads to the mostly abritrary "mathematical" designations of training variables like "it's 60% this, 30 %, that with a smattering of a few other things". Which is, of course, complete bullshit.  At those times when I have tried to dial in optimal FREQUENCY, for instance: Of course the fullbody 5x5 comes to mind. Yeah, I had some success. But I spent as much time during those grueling days worrying about having a bad day in gym, catastrophising over potential injuries since some joint or other was always tweaked, or simple dreading the whole thing. Each day was completely like the last. The one goal of simply adding a little load to the bar in the hopes of some far off PR was was derailing my drive and enthusiasm. All of that equalling to DISTRESS. How optimal is that? I'm talking about me and how I approached it I'm not saying that another person couldn't have a more healthy approach.  All the while I told myself that was the price of dedication. Not realizing that EVERYTHING matters.

Another Post by DH in respect to Eric's writings..

This is going to take me a long while to read since I've got A LOT of stuff on my plate all day lol. Yep, football being one of them! I've read a few pages and Eric was able to ellaborate exactly what I was saying to the 'nth' degree. The framework is there fellas. You owe it to yourselves to read through it a few times because everything in here is a combined 20+ years of training successes and failures as well as the realization that training is only a small part of our lives. The best results will always come from believing in what you're doing, and not falling down the path of having a "bad day" in the gym ruin the other 23 hours in your day lol. I've always believed that if you get to the point to where you're so obsessive that you wake up at zero-dark-thirty just to slam a protein shake before you start the day, you're either doing a contest prep, or you've been brainwashed to think you actually need something like that.

So what do I think? I only have two big gripes about every journal section in every forum I've visited:

1) It's a race, but for what? No idea. People will have to be talked off a roof top before they commit suicide because their gym closed early on Christmas. I don't think I need to go further than that. Everyone treats training like it's a rat race. I can see having a comp or a meet in a time frame, but for the rest of you, it's hurting, not helping. It's hard not to think some people as being about as deep as a frisbee! Look at me, I could've probably gone back to the gym after a week of migranes, but I didn't. Why? Because I train for myself, and my health. Accepting WHO you are, and WHAT you've ALREADY accomplished is the first step to MASSIVE gains in the gym. Those who are stressing and losing sleep over that which they have no control over will always be spinning their wheels over how to fix it. A hardgainer will always be a hardgainer if they continue training to be someone they are not. 

Think about this. Where would everyone be right now if instead of comparing themselves to other people in the forums, they instead compare themselves to where they were a year ago? How realistic is it if you're comparing yourself to someone who is, say, using a few week cycles of Superdrol and saying their clean LOL? That's what they say, but why the fuck would you believe them?! Gotta love the annonymus internet forums!

2. "Alright guys, I'm doing DFHT, and here's what I'm picking!"

Barbell Bench followed by...
Incline DB...
JS Rows...
Power Cleans...
JM Presses...
Barbell Curls...



I've never known anyone anywhere who could do compound exercises one after the other like that. People HAVE TO include powercleans, with zero reasoning other than, well, I want to be explosive or "different" LOL. So you gotta hold your breath for the voice of sanity to reign down from the Heavens and ask two important questions:

1) What's your strength base at? 

2) What is your reasoning for picking those exercises other than them being popular? 

I'm going to leave it at that because I've hammered away at this for so many years that I've lost the fight and patience in me. I can remember the days long ago after doing some benching and barbell rows (to the floor) where it wiped me out. So instead of approaching the training from a sensible standpoint, I had to slime through the rest to where my eyes were halfway closed and I had to pass out on one of the mats on the floor, all the while pretending to be stretching so noone would call an ambulance lol. It really only boils down to YOU. Ask yourself if you only do something like heavy benching and heavy barbell rows (deloading on the floor) and perhaps another isolation before you almost die, is that going to be enough? Hell yes it is!